One idea that she suggested and that I thought was very interesting was when the white adults read the different stories and (not knowing) picked the black girl's story as the bad one and the white kids stories as the better ones. While the black adults thought the opposite. It proves that race can play a part in not just speech, but in a way you understand things as well (a narrative example in this case).
She did suggest that by the ages of 8 children tend to choose the way they talk (because they can talk like their teachers before then), and the majority choose to talk like their surrounding community. But the article still helped me to understand that Ebonics sounding "illiterate" might be a society thing and that Ebonic speaking people can be very smart. The more educated people are typically surrounded by "professional" voices and tend to speak as such.
Jennifer, exactly what is a "professional voice"? In your last paragraph, it seems that you believe that a voice with any Ebonic tones is not considered professional. I'm having a serious problem understanding what you mean by "professional language". I could be wrong, but it sounds as if you mean that professional people should sound a certain way, like White people for example, and I can't support an idea like that because it's ethically wrong.
I'm not saying I'm ethically just either. I know I definitely have my own prejudices, but when it comes to my students, I cannot, in good conscious, after learning all that I have, tell them that they are wrong, that the way the speak is wrong, that who they are is wrong, and that I can teach them to be "right". I can however, be honest with them about what they are going to face when they go out into the "professional" world and help prepare them for that experience. Basically, I'm going to be teaching them how to play a game with rules that they are probably already very aware of but perhaps, don't know how to use. Trying to make them sound white or be white or even want to be white is so demeaning for them and me.
To further answer the question, one technique my host teacher uses is to read the story, play, etc aloud, herself, and basically translate the meaning into her students' language. Generally, the majority of the kids know what she's talking about before she starts to explain things because she asks questions before she begins. However, she knows that some of her kids just don't get it, so she helps them. I would even venture to say that at least 95% of her kids know exactly what's going on in the story because of her ability to convey meaning in a way they understand. It's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it. We have to deal with the situations that are present in the classroom. Yeah, they should have all learned to read in elementary school, but they didn't. Instead of complaining about what should have happened or what didn't happen, we just have to deal with what we have right now. I think this kind of reading strategy, is a good way to begin.
Speaking Ebonics does not make you uneducated, but unfortunately that is the way the professional world views things currently. Delpit says: "most teachers...believe that their students' life chances will be further hampered if they do not learn Standard English. In the stratified society in which we live, they are absolutely correct" There is a correlation between Ebonics, or AAVE, and lack of (formal) education, and even though it isn't fair, people assume that correlation=causation.
The thing I explain to my students is that no one really speaks SAE on a daily basis -unless your job requires it (eg. newscaster). I don't speak perfect SAE when I am hanging out with my friends and neither do they, and that's fine. I end sentences in prepositions and use slang all the time. But when it is interview time or formal paper writing time it is a different story. I don't wear an oxford and a tie when I'm hanging around the house, either, but certain hoops are expected to be jumped through.
Code-switching is key here. Once the kids understand that speaking AAVE is perfectly fine and appropriate in certain circumstances, they have to realize that some people are ignorant and think it makes them dumb -the same people that might give them a job. Not exactly fair, but once they get a job creating legislation, teaching, or governing they can change the perception from the top down.
As teachers we have a huge commitment to our students to not perpetuate the rotten racism that exists in our society that puts down the 'other' the parts of America that are different than 'standard'. I have to agree that a huge part of making it is about code- switching that Lee mentioned. Being able to read the situation and adjust your actions accordingly is not only a huge part of the practical intelligence we ofter speak about in class but also has so much to do with the perception of your self worth by others- very discriminatory I know! And, I can't help but think about how unfair it is that this is what we push for and sometimes what is demonstrated in the class room by showing respect to standard and not to alternative.
I see what Jennifer is talking about when she refers to a "professional" voice. I for instance when I am at a job interview or at school I lose my slang and take on a more professional sounding speech. I lose my Southern accent which doesn't sound "educated". But when I go home I get that accent back, I talk slower and use slang words. So when it comes to ebonics, I think that it is often seen as uneducated just as a southern accent is looked at as being uneducated. I feel like students should be able to recognize when they should speak in a certain way. In which this probably is a terrible view that I have. But I do not see a difference in language when it comes to people who speak in a Southern way or in Ebonics. As a teacher, I will not tell a student that they are wrong because the way person speaks isn't wrong necessarily. But when I pronounce something people correct me so why shouldn't I correct a student when they say "urnge" they color is orange when sound it out there is only one way to say it. Why shouldn't I correct them?
One thing that I will not allow in my classroom is the correction of one student's oral grammar by another. In the past, especially in middle school grades, I've heard students correct one another and use a tone that implies the student being corrected is stupid. I think this kind of behavior sets up a hierarchy in the classroom that could be very hurtful for some students.
I thought this article was interesting and gave some good ideas. For example, I really enjoyed the idea of having the students make bi-lingual dictionaries from their own language form and then one for Standard English. She goes on to suggest that this can also be done by using languages from different generations. As a Social Studies teacher I thought this activity could be extremely useful. For example, there are a lot of words that were used in the past that are no longer popular. However, these words can still be found when they read their text books, historical novels, or even by watching historical documentary's. To help them understand the definition to these words they could make bi-lingual dictionaries. That way the class can fully understand and appreciate that time in history.
I also liked the idea of students making their own dictionaries. And I agree with Christy about being aware of one or a group of students correcting another's use of language. One idea that came to me while reading this article was to have students create works while listening to a variety of music from various cultures and historical times. One of my dearest college friends created her senior show based on one of the most popular albums Astral Weeks by Van Morrison. This is just one way to incorporate different dialects or languages and also expose our students to ideas they perhaps would have never considered. I would choose different music that would be more interesting to them- maybe some 50s jazz out of New Orleans or Cajun music or even some more contemporary jams.
People need to realize that English is only a bastardized amalgamation of Old Norse and Norman French. Like all languages it was once viewed as 'incorrect' and 'backward.' In the last few centuries it has enjoyed a high linguistic status, but that does not erase its humble beginnings as a creole language.
And by the way the word "ask" was originally pronounced "ax" and has metastasized over the last hundred years into the way we now pronounce it. The only thing separating right speaking from wrong is a couple hundred years and some inane language regulations.
I love the idea of creating bi-lingual dictionaries. But I see this being more appropriate for either a English or Social Studies classroom. These dictionaries I think would be very helpful to students to gain and understand the vocabulary in there textbooks.
I completely agree with everyone. Christy, I was using the term "professional voice" like the author in the article was. I was quoting straight from the article. Lee and Jenn pretty much summed up what I meant by it. But to further add, I was commenting on the point the author mentioned about the children choosing to speak the dialect or language of the surrounding community they feel most comfortable with. If you remember, the black children talk like their teachers until about the age of 8 were Ebonics took over. They were choosing to speak with Ebonics. Just like most people who are in the Education community-whether a college student or teacher-choose to talk in what the author called a "professional voice". This is the same idea in most job environments-especially if your titled in some way (titled examples being a manager or president). A "professional voice" sounds more educated because their grammer is considered "proper" and their vocabulary is expanded. Then I was stating how a "professional voice" doesn't necessarily determine ones IQ. Hope that helps clear some things up. I hate blogging!!!
Christy-since it seems that you disagree with everything I say in the last few blogs but agree with most of the others (which I too mostly always agree on) don't read to much into how I say things. I know it's torture, but I was awful in English and have a lot of trouble understanding or expressing myself in a written language. I couldn't even understand the resolution article. Sorry for the confusions
I think it is important to not discriminate the different dialects in the classroom. I also really liked what Lee had to say about teaching the kids to read the different situations they are in to determine how they should act and speak. You could give them examples like you don't neccesarilly act and talk the same at church on Sunday morning as you do on Saturday night hanging out with your friends. There is a time and place for certain kinds of communication, teach them to read those situations and how to best act in them so that they can get the most out of those situtaions.
I agree that there are strategies of code-switching that the students need to know how to utilize. I grew up always being taught that there is a time and place for everything. I also loved the idea of the bilingual dictionaries. I immediately thought of a variety of ways this could be used in my classroom as an English teacher.
I loved the "time and a place" idea that Lee and Katey mentioned above. This characteristic is extremely important for kids to understand before they reach adulthood. By understanding what is appropriate behavior/language these students will be have a better chance of succeeding in the real world. Katey gave a great example about how children act in church. Another example to help kids decipher what appropriate behavior could be how they act at their grandparents house compared to how they act hanging out with their friends.
In my classes, whenever the students are unsure about a word, from definition to spelling, they have already been trained to look in a dictionary, and in more rare cases, a thesaurus. As stated in one of my posts on a different subject, my host teacher does not approve of slang, while I do if in the correct context. Like others have commented on and is suggested, a multi-language dictionary or thesaurus would be awesome. It would be like an enhanced, expanded edition, and there might be an alternate saying that might appeal to the student, therefore perpetuating self-interest in this new language, and which in turn they might sprinkle the words effectively throughout their essays to make them more colorful.
As long as it is appropriate, students language should not be frowned upon because it is different. It is this difference in diversity that helps educate a classroom and expose and increase tolerance and understanding among everyone.
I thought the idea of bilingual dictionaries was a little comical when I first read the article. I only thought this because while teaching Health, I can only imagine the names the students would come up with for anatomical terminology. It makes me think of the scene in Varsity Blues during the Sex Education class where the teacher makes them say any slang terms and the proper terms as well. The teacher that I am teaching with at JMA does not like for us to use slang, but it is understandable in a school that speaks, for the majority, proper English. I think this would be appropriate, but I don't think I would use it as often during a Sex Respect unit.
In response to many classmates, I believe that code-switching is a very important strategy that people use daily. My roommate was a black individual whom I am very good friends with to this day. She would speak proper English in school and around me while we were at our apartment. She would call home or elsewhere and I could sometimes not understand what she was saying to her friends and family on the phone. At first, I was like, why does she do that? I don't understand why she doesn't speak properly to everyone. But over time, I realized that was how she grew up, and she learned two different languages to fit into the different parts of her life.
It is important to show the students that we too code-switch. Let them know, like Lee says above, that we never speak SAE all the time, but we do know when to use it. Though we may think it annoying when folks do it to us, we must learn to proof carefully the documents that we give to our students and be the prime example of one who can be a real person and a smart-sounding one at the same time. $5 words in an accent sometimes has that effect, in my own experience.
One idea that she suggested and that I thought was very interesting was when the white adults read the different stories and (not knowing) picked the black girl's story as the bad one and the white kids stories as the better ones. While the black adults thought the opposite. It proves that race can play a part in not just speech, but in a way you understand things as well (a narrative example in this case).
ReplyDeleteShe did suggest that by the ages of 8 children tend to choose the way they talk (because they can talk like their teachers before then), and the majority choose to talk like their surrounding community. But the article still helped me to understand that Ebonics sounding "illiterate" might be a society thing and that Ebonic speaking people can be very smart. The more educated people are typically surrounded by "professional" voices and tend to speak as such.
Jennifer, exactly what is a "professional voice"? In your last paragraph, it seems that you believe that a voice with any Ebonic tones is not considered professional. I'm having a serious problem understanding what you mean by "professional language". I could be wrong, but it sounds as if you mean that professional people should sound a certain way, like White people for example, and I can't support an idea like that because it's ethically wrong.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying I'm ethically just either. I know I definitely have my own prejudices, but when it comes to my students, I cannot, in good conscious, after learning all that I have, tell them that they are wrong, that the way the speak is wrong, that who they are is wrong, and that I can teach them to be "right". I can however, be honest with them about what they are going to face when they go out into the "professional" world and help prepare them for that experience. Basically, I'm going to be teaching them how to play a game with rules that they are probably already very aware of but perhaps, don't know how to use. Trying to make them sound white or be white or even want to be white is so demeaning for them and me.
To further answer the question, one technique my host teacher uses is to read the story, play, etc aloud, herself, and basically translate the meaning into her students' language. Generally, the majority of the kids know what she's talking about before she starts to explain things because she asks questions before she begins. However, she knows that some of her kids just don't get it, so she helps them. I would even venture to say that at least 95% of her kids know exactly what's going on in the story because of her ability to convey meaning in a way they understand. It's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it. We have to deal with the situations that are present in the classroom. Yeah, they should have all learned to read in elementary school, but they didn't. Instead of complaining about what should have happened or what didn't happen, we just have to deal with what we have right now. I think this kind of reading strategy, is a good way to begin.
Speaking Ebonics does not make you uneducated, but unfortunately that is the way the professional world views things currently. Delpit says: "most teachers...believe that their students' life chances will be further hampered if they do not learn Standard English. In the stratified society in which we live, they are absolutely correct" There is a correlation between Ebonics, or AAVE, and lack of (formal) education, and even though it isn't fair, people assume that correlation=causation.
ReplyDeleteThe thing I explain to my students is that no one really speaks SAE on a daily basis -unless your job requires it (eg. newscaster). I don't speak perfect SAE when I am hanging out with my friends and neither do they, and that's fine. I end sentences in prepositions and use slang all the time. But when it is interview time or formal paper writing time it is a different story. I don't wear an oxford and a tie when I'm hanging around the house, either, but certain hoops are expected to be jumped through.
Code-switching is key here. Once the kids understand that speaking AAVE is perfectly fine and appropriate in certain circumstances, they have to realize that some people are ignorant and think it makes them dumb -the same people that might give them a job. Not exactly fair, but once they get a job creating legislation, teaching, or governing they can change the perception from the top down.
As teachers we have a huge commitment to our students to not perpetuate the rotten racism that exists in our society that puts down the 'other' the parts of America that are different than 'standard'. I have to agree that a huge part of making it is about code- switching that Lee mentioned. Being able to read the situation and adjust your actions accordingly is not only a huge part of the practical intelligence we ofter speak about in class but also has so much to do with the perception of your self worth by others- very discriminatory I know! And, I can't help but think about how unfair it is that this is what we push for and sometimes what is demonstrated in the class room by showing respect to standard and not to alternative.
ReplyDeleteI see what Jennifer is talking about when she refers to a "professional" voice. I for instance when I am at a job interview or at school I lose my slang and take on a more professional sounding speech. I lose my Southern accent which doesn't sound "educated". But when I go home I get that accent back, I talk slower and use slang words. So when it comes to ebonics, I think that it is often seen as uneducated just as a southern accent is looked at as being uneducated. I feel like students should be able to recognize when they should speak in a certain way. In which this probably is a terrible view that I have. But I do not see a difference in language when it comes to people who speak in a Southern way or in Ebonics.
ReplyDeleteAs a teacher, I will not tell a student that they are wrong because the way person speaks isn't wrong necessarily. But when I pronounce something people correct me so why shouldn't I correct a student when they say "urnge" they color is orange when sound it out there is only one way to say it. Why shouldn't I correct them?
One thing that I will not allow in my classroom is the correction of one student's oral grammar by another. In the past, especially in middle school grades, I've heard students correct one another and use a tone that implies the student being corrected is stupid. I think this kind of behavior sets up a hierarchy in the classroom that could be very hurtful for some students.
ReplyDeleteI thought this article was interesting and gave some good ideas. For example, I really enjoyed the idea of having the students make bi-lingual dictionaries from their own language form and then one for Standard English. She goes on to suggest that this can also be done by using languages from different generations. As a Social Studies teacher I thought this activity could be extremely useful. For example, there are a lot of words that were used in the past that are no longer popular. However, these words can still be found when they read their text books, historical novels, or even by watching historical documentary's. To help them understand the definition to these words they could make bi-lingual dictionaries. That way the class can fully understand and appreciate that time in history.
ReplyDeleteI also liked the idea of students making their own dictionaries. And I agree with Christy about being aware of one or a group of students correcting another's use of language.
ReplyDeleteOne idea that came to me while reading this article was to have students create works while listening to a variety of music from various cultures and historical times. One of my dearest college friends created her senior show based on one of the most popular albums Astral Weeks by Van Morrison. This is just one way to incorporate different dialects or languages and also expose our students to ideas they perhaps would have never considered. I would choose different music that would be more interesting to them- maybe some 50s jazz out of New Orleans or Cajun music or even some more contemporary jams.
People need to realize that English is only a bastardized amalgamation of Old Norse and Norman French. Like all languages it was once viewed as 'incorrect' and 'backward.' In the last few centuries it has enjoyed a high linguistic status, but that does not erase its humble beginnings as a creole language.
ReplyDeleteNobody needs to view anyone else's dialect/language with disdain since all languages are looked down upon in their beginnings (French/Italian/Portuguese were known as 'vulgar' Latin when they first began to emerge) No doubt a couple hundred years from now English will look a lot different from how it currently does, and perhaps Ebonics will be a 'true' language (with dictionaries, textbooks, and people who speak exclusively in it) A language is a living breathing thing and you can't fight its progression -ask the French how well their Académie française has prevented certain words and phrases from spreading.
And by the way the word "ask" was originally pronounced "ax" and has metastasized over the last hundred years into the way we now pronounce it. The only thing separating right speaking from wrong is a couple hundred years and some inane language regulations.
I love the idea of creating bi-lingual dictionaries. But I see this being more appropriate for either a English or Social Studies classroom. These dictionaries I think would be very helpful to students to gain and understand the vocabulary in there textbooks.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with everyone. Christy, I was using the term "professional voice" like the author in the article was. I was quoting straight from the article. Lee and Jenn pretty much summed up what I meant by it. But to further add, I was commenting on the point the author mentioned about the children choosing to speak the dialect or language of the surrounding community they feel most comfortable with. If you remember, the black children talk like their teachers until about the age of 8 were Ebonics took over. They were choosing to speak with Ebonics. Just like most people who are in the Education community-whether a college student or teacher-choose to talk in what the author called a "professional voice". This is the same idea in most job environments-especially if your titled in some way (titled examples being a manager or president). A "professional voice" sounds more educated because their grammer is considered "proper" and their vocabulary is expanded. Then I was stating how a "professional voice" doesn't necessarily determine ones IQ. Hope that helps clear some things up. I hate blogging!!!
ReplyDeleteChristy-since it seems that you disagree with everything I say in the last few blogs but agree with most of the others (which I too mostly always agree on) don't read to much into how I say things. I know it's torture, but I was awful in English and have a lot of trouble understanding or expressing myself in a written language. I couldn't even understand the resolution article. Sorry for the confusions
I think it is important to not discriminate the different dialects in the classroom. I also really liked what Lee had to say about teaching the kids to read the different situations they are in to determine how they should act and speak. You could give them examples like you don't neccesarilly act and talk the same at church on Sunday morning as you do on Saturday night hanging out with your friends. There is a time and place for certain kinds of communication, teach them to read those situations and how to best act in them so that they can get the most out of those situtaions.
ReplyDeleteI agree that there are strategies of code-switching that the students need to know how to utilize. I grew up always being taught that there is a time and place for everything. I also loved the idea of the bilingual dictionaries. I immediately thought of a variety of ways this could be used in my classroom as an English teacher.
ReplyDeleteI loved the "time and a place" idea that Lee and Katey mentioned above. This characteristic is extremely important for kids to understand before they reach adulthood. By understanding what is appropriate behavior/language these students will be have a better chance of succeeding in the real world. Katey gave a great example about how children act in church. Another example to help kids decipher what appropriate behavior could be how they act at their grandparents house compared to how they act hanging out with their friends.
ReplyDeleteIn my classes, whenever the students are unsure about a word, from definition to spelling, they have already been trained to look in a dictionary, and in more rare cases, a thesaurus. As stated in one of my posts on a different subject, my host teacher does not approve of slang, while I do if in the correct context. Like others have commented on and is suggested, a multi-language dictionary or thesaurus would be awesome. It would be like an enhanced, expanded edition, and there might be an alternate saying that might appeal to the student, therefore perpetuating self-interest in this new language, and which in turn they might sprinkle the words effectively throughout their essays to make them more colorful.
ReplyDeleteAs long as it is appropriate, students language should not be frowned upon because it is different. It is this difference in diversity that helps educate a classroom and expose and increase tolerance and understanding among everyone.
I thought the idea of bilingual dictionaries was a little comical when I first read the article. I only thought this because while teaching Health, I can only imagine the names the students would come up with for anatomical terminology. It makes me think of the scene in Varsity Blues during the Sex Education class where the teacher makes them say any slang terms and the proper terms as well. The teacher that I am teaching with at JMA does not like for us to use slang, but it is understandable in a school that speaks, for the majority, proper English. I think this would be appropriate, but I don't think I would use it as often during a Sex Respect unit.
ReplyDeleteIn response to many classmates, I believe that code-switching is a very important strategy that people use daily. My roommate was a black individual whom I am very good friends with to this day. She would speak proper English in school and around me while we were at our apartment. She would call home or elsewhere and I could sometimes not understand what she was saying to her friends and family on the phone. At first, I was like, why does she do that? I don't understand why she doesn't speak properly to everyone. But over time, I realized that was how she grew up, and she learned two different languages to fit into the different parts of her life.
ReplyDeleteIt is important to show the students that we too code-switch. Let them know, like Lee says above, that we never speak SAE all the time, but we do know when to use it. Though we may think it annoying when folks do it to us, we must learn to proof carefully the documents that we give to our students and be the prime example of one who can be a real person and a smart-sounding one at the same time. $5 words in an accent sometimes has that effect, in my own experience.
ReplyDelete