What do you think of the famous (and still on-going) battle between Summers and Sadker? What good points does each make? What questionable points does each make? How likely is it that both genders have different but equally significant problems in school?
I think that both genders are obviously facing significant problems in the education system. I dont think it really makes sense to single out one gender of students to focus on. In my opinion educators need to be focusing on the success of ALL students. That being said, both Summers and Sadker do bring up problems for each gender that truly need to be addressed.
ReplyDeleteSommers points out the fact that while the gap between boys and girls has virtually closed in areas such as math, but girls still have a great advantage in areas of reading and writing. I saw very little rebuttal from Sadker on this argument. Sadker makes a strong case that a lot of funding goes to special education, but also acknowledges that boys make up a greater percentage of special needs students. He also says that girls make up a high percentage of lower paying areas of study in college, but males dominate higher paying areas. The only problem I have with this is that I dont think that anyone is choosing what area any student pursues. Overall, I think the argument should not be which gender of students we help, but how can we help every student get what they need.
I agree with CJ. I saw a lot of ad hominem style attacking on the experiences of Sommers' and her sources, but very little was done to refute many of her points. (What's wrong with her being a philosopher, exactly?) I am sure Sommers could have more thoroughly researched many of the things she discusses, but it is hard being the only one saying the emperor has no clothes, and I wonder if such intense scrutiny is applied toward other, more liberal writers? I'm glad someone is attempting to combat the 'groupthink' that I believe happens too often in academia.
ReplyDeleteI took an African Women Writers class as an undergrad taught by a man, and he loved the topic feminism and women in literature. He also says he wished there were a literary study focused strictly on masculinity and men, but he can never convince anyone to publish his papers on it or take the topic seriously because of perceived sexism. Why can't we do both?
I say we take an honest look at the problems that both genders face (and clearly, they both have struggles) and without getting political, deal with them head on. Arguments like Sommers and Sadker's contribute nothing and are a great distraction from the real issue.
I think that it is interesting that a man is fighting for girls' education and a woman is fighting for boys' education. I think that both boys and girls have trouble in school. They both bring up some great points about where the other is lacking in education. If we know that girls need help in math and science and boys need help in reading and language arts, we need to use that information to help all of the students in our classroom.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is very likely that both sexes face significant problems of learning in school. The test scores that both writers brought up prove that there is a difference in the learning of boys and girls. By figuring out where the difference is for BOTH sexes we can begin to fix the problem.
i agree with CJ. Both sexes obviously face problems. All students should be focused on, and not the problems of a specific gender but both genders. Yes, boys are not doing well in English in comparison to girls and girls do not do as well as boys in Math. So should we focus on developing programs to help both boys in English and girls in Math. As teachers equality in the classroom should be a priority not only with gender, but race, class, etc.
ReplyDeleteBoth Sadker and Sommers admits that both genders have issues in different areas. So who is to say which is the most important and which should be fixed immediately. Obviously both genders have issues and the should both be fixed. --Jenn V.
I think the battle is quite interesting. To read that a man is fighting for female students and a woman is fighting for male students is interesting in itself. In general, females do have difficulty in math and science while English and writing are difficult for males.
ReplyDeleteI noticed what CJ said as well about the special education topic. I found it surprising that mostly males are special education students and more funding goes to that.
As a teacher, it all comes down to the individual once again. Take our class for example, Daniel and Lee would do much better teaching an English class than I would, and I would probably perform better as a Health educator because it is what we like. It is not right to stereotype groups and say that some students are better in certain areas based on gender, but it is a reality. I think we need to focus on each student and pull out there strengths but still focus on their weaknesses.
I think the arguments in the two articles have little to do with gender and much more to do with class. Sadker refutes Sommers' article by using examples from SAT II and PSAT scores. I'm not sure how those statistics supercede the number of male dropouts, percentage of males in Special Education, and male suicide rates. I think the educational community needs to focus more on helping boys graduate from high school with an adequate education than whether or not a girl gets into Harvard.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do think, as teachers, we must be aware of how we run our classrooms. Do we value a certain child or children's opinion or answers more than another? Are we allowing a student or one group of students to dominate class discussions? Knowing our students, working with their individual needs or strengths, and attempting to maintain a balanced classroom are definitely ways to close whatever divide may seperate boys and girls.
I mean does any one else smell something fishy? Really, an entire lives work could be devoted to dispelling both of their writings. After reading both articles I couldn't help but conduct some internet research of my own and found that I really don't think I could fully support either one of their findings. Both of them seem to be really defensive and it really makes their writing trite- it is all so mucky and both of their arguments seems so closely tied to political beliefs and private funding. They make it really hard to see past all of this in both of their writing.
ReplyDeleteAll of my feelings aside (and I guess that is the problem) I think that innate gender differences are apparent. In the class room we need to start giving every student what he or she needs. By comparing and contrasting in art history we learn about the entirety of the work. It is only by relating and separating that we can see every facet and it is by building onto and responding to things, ideas,and movements that new one are created. Creating a equal playing field for boys and girls is ideal and involves meeting their needs very differently. It is going to be hard to continue building on the history of gender inequalities because of the mis information and recent years of heightend womens issues. Both genders need to be at the front of everyones minds to have a real impactful solution.
One questionable point that I noticed the second time I read the Sommers article was that "Far more boys than girls suffer from learning disabilities." In Marjo's class, we were told that this wasn't necessarily the case because often times, it is just that there are fewer female cases reported.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Christy when she states, "I think the educational community needs to focus more on helping boys graduate from high school with an adequate education than whether or not a girl gets into Harvard." I was actually thinking somewhat similarly myself. Students need a good education that is going to help them in life. As long as the students can put food on the table and a roof over their heads, I think we're doing well. Everyone is different, and we need to identify those that are having difficulties no matter if they are male, female, African American, Caucasian, Hispanic, or any other ethnicity for that matter.
I agree completely with Claire. Someone could spend there entire life going arguing who is suffering the most in schools. The one thing that I think that could be focused on is job field equality. We should try to open the job fields for students. More men should go into a teaching field which is a mainly female orientated job. Young boys need a male figure for a teacher I think that it would greatly benefit them. I also think that this goes for showing girls that jobs in the science and medical fields are acceptable. Opening up students minds to field of opportunities I think would greatly benefit both sexes.
ReplyDelete----Jenn V
ReplyDeleteI couldn't help feeling like I was reading a he said-she said story. I do not believe that either one made a truly valid point to back up their side of the issue. From what I've learned in the past, boys and girls have equal struggles in the school system that effect a child's self esteem. They of course vary according to subject, grade, and cognitive development. However, one of the biggest deciding factors is physical development and therefore social development. This is an issue that influences a student's school day and self esteem level with an equal impact on both boys and girls. I don't know. I guess I just feel that there were several holes and missing information in both articles.
ReplyDeleteBeing aware of and consciously managing our own classrooms like not always discouraging a slightly more 'rowdy' class if that is more engaging for boys and giving extra support in science and math to girls I think is the underlying issue both of these articles are trying to convey. But everything was lost in as Amanda put it "he said, she said" commentary. In the other assigned reading there were much more valid points to the issue at hand like that we are really funding this inequity by only encouraging girls in more 'domestic' type careers and pushing boys to pursue mechanical or technical jobs. With that being said we must always keep in mind that students are so very impressionable and that how we talk and handle and feel about issues, including gender will, even though we might not believe it, highly influence the thoughts and feelings and attitudes of our students.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like we are all on the same page as far as trying to focus on every student, not just one particular group. I do also think a positive can come out of reading about this issue and that is just understanding that girls and boys struggle in education, in different ways. By understanding the problems they face, we can try our best to help them through them and help them be successful.
ReplyDeleteI'm torn on the subject of job field equality...In my studies and observation it is obvious to me that the reason the teacher field (for example) is full of more females is because, generally, females tend to be more maternal and compassionate then the average man. That is of course not to say that a man can't be a great teacher, or even that females tend to be greater teachers...I'm only talking about REASONS different genders get into specific job fields. The idea of helping children tends to be a more natural idea for a female. Just like the idea of big business (ceo positions and such) tend to have more males because GENERALLY males have more of a money making attitude (a typical providing for ones family type idea). Statistics show that in job fields men are generally paid more because they ask for raises more than females. So-my example for male dominated job fields are doctors, business men, politicians, ect...the higher paying jobs. Females generally go into careers that are secure and have less risk. Not only does everyone need nurses, teachers, hair stylist and secretaries-but those type jobs are "I'll take care of everything" for you jobs..."Your in good hands"...like I was talking about earlier. In other words, I don't know if we'll ever have job equality.....and I'm not saying that's a good thing or bad thing.
ReplyDeleteI know that a female or male's natural tendancies play a big part in what type career they pick...but that is not to say that a teacher's responsibility is not to help a students weakest points become stronger. I don't, however, feel that it is not appropriate to take a student's natural talents and build on them...one half of the brain deserves just as much attention as the other half....that being said, I don't know if the other half (the weakest) will ever keep up with the half of the brain that's the strongest.
Teachers having a relationship with a student, learning the different teaching styles (differentiation, ect) and learning how to utilize them effectively are the only ways I can see the best exercises for the vast majority of the brain. Which is ultimately what these articles are talking about to me-a general difference in how males and females learn.
I like the ideas that Jennifer brought up about why the different genders go into specific fields. I think that there is some truth to that, but there are always exceptions to the rules. I think that it is important to make sure that kids are well rounded, and try our hardest to equip them for whatever job they may have some day, not just those jobs that they are usually pigeon-holed into.
ReplyDeleteAs someone else brought up earlier, I thought it was very interesting that they brought up self-esteem and used it as an argument. All kids have self-esteem issues, and I don't think that boys or girls have it worse, they just deal with it in very different ways. And they both can have a bad effect on a child's learning.
I find the fact that teaching is generally seen as a female profession slightly insulting. I learned in one of my undergraduate classes that it has really only been recent that females have taken over the teaching field. Before WWII female teachers were few and far between. The entire profession was held on a higher level of respect from the community and salary was higher (in accordance to the time period). Then when the war happened, women entered the field at high rates. It became one of the few careers that men did not take back over upon their return. That was kinda the turning point for teachers salaries being cut and the respect level dropped. This was mainly because it became to be known as a female profession.
ReplyDeleteI find the idea that schools are girl centered because most teachers are female to be interesting. It actually makes sense, on a small scale. At a very basic level, we all expect people to behave the way we think they should, so it stands to reason that a female teacher would expect a male student to behave according to her rules. However, knowing what we know about individuality and kids in general, that is next to impossible. I'm wondering if there is some truth to the idea that schools function in a way that would encourage girls to behave the way the teacher wants them in order for them to succeed.
ReplyDeleteFrom personal experience, I've seen boys get up and wander around the classroom for no obvious reason, touching everyone and everything as they go. I usually tell them to sit down because that's what I want them to do. I always ask them what they are doing, and I usually get the old stand-by response, "Nothing." Maybe they just need to move around a little bit? I've started to try to take this need to move around and implement it into my lesson. It doesn't happen everyday, but 3 days out of 5, I want the kids standing up, moving around and doing an activity for a few minutes at the beginning or middle of class. I've found that this really curtails a lot of loud socializing during class because everyone, boys and girls, can get some of socializing and restless energy out.
In a room like Mr. Averett's, which is the size of a broom closet but somehow has 3 chalkboards, the kids are packed in pretty tightly. However, 2 of the chalkboards run the length of each side wall, so there is plenty of space to write. The students really enjoy writing things on the board and seem to take pride in sharing their ideas with the class. I think the students get a lot of out being able to move around, talk, and share ideas. When the day is going smoothly, it is a pretty powerful thing to witness.
While studies are only a couple decades old on the gender issue, I feel like it is a tale as old as time. The statistics that Sommers spits out is rather alarming, from the dramatic increase in points that females were ahead of males in reading and writing, as well as the suggestion that boys are an entire year and a half behind girls. I agree with Sommers theory that one reason might be because the media has promoted a public image of girls being the ones that are behind. Politically, they have been held back in the past and have taken years and sometimes decades to catch up to the equality of men. The media represents perception and the actual statistics present a bit more of the reality, but perception almost always trumps realism in any situation.
ReplyDeleteWith Sadker, I'd be hesitant to believe a PSAT statistic, because the last I was aware, the PSATs are often optional, so you cannot truly fairly compare. I believe this entire article raises an important question about any classroom. Which is more important: To get a high grade in the class by showing understanding, or to get a high grade on the state/school/national standardized test to prove knowledge. This creates the issue of how well each gender is at testing. Why doesn't the gender gap disappear for females when it comes to testing? When it mentions the statistic about 60% men getting doctorates, it makes me think of one fact when it comes to women that will never change: they are able to get pregnant. Men have the advantage of not having to deal with maternity like women do, and it takes time to get a doctorate, but biological clocks do not stop ticking.
As alot of people have said, we need to stop picking sides and help out all children equally. If these hot-button issues would stop being so politicized, there would be less room for rhetoric and more room for action. I think every agrees (including Sadker) that both sides need all the help they can get in certain areas. Don't make it a gender issue, but a child/student issue.
ReplyDeleteBoys lack this, blah, blah, blah. Girls lack that, blah, blah, blah. While ti does overrun a bit and can get rather tiresome rather quickly--and I do not intend to be insensitive for dismissing it temporarily--but I would rather read articles about the gender of the teacher, not the student. As has been mentioned in earlier comments, it does come down to the individual once again. While it is more difficult to pick out the individual traits of an entire classroom, it is perhaps easier to research and report on the teacher in the classroom. The teacher is an easier individual to study because there is only one of them. I've heard of a few reportings before, but I'd like it to be investigated further, how different genders respond to different gendered teachers in different subjects.
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ReplyDeleteI do believe Lee is right. We all know that people, both male or female, are capable of amazing and powerful things if they put their mind and effort into it. It's important to equip students on how to reach their dreams...the knowledge and encouragement that they can succeed is what's most important. Of course it will only aid in them succeeding if their tools are sharpened by such wonderful teachers as us :)
ReplyDeleteI believe that both sides make compelling arguments and show that there are a lot of issues with gender facing the education system. However, I agree that both seem to be on the defense and seem to forget what is really important, giving every child what they need instead of claiming which sex is being left out or even deserves more attention in the classroom.
ReplyDeleteBoth point out that boys have a higher rate of suicide and becoming a high school drop out, but they also have very strong opposing views. In Sommers' article she points out sources from London stating that boys are on the weak side of the gender gap and that "a growing body of evidence suggests that American boys may be in similar straits." She then goes on to use examples of different articles, such as The New York Times, that discuss issues facing girls in the school system and how they are incorrect. She does not seem to have very strong evidence supporting her opinion of sexism.
On the other hand, Sadker discusses women and men on the college level and how their choices of what to major in is due to the opportunities that were thrown to them as kids in elementary school through high school. He also mentions that boys sports get more funding than girls do. This I have first hand experience with from the high school I went to. We were always told this was true because the boy sports bring in more money with ticket sales. What I didn't understand was that they might have larger crowds than we did, but we had more state championships then they had, especially in recent years.
Both genders have problems that should be considered to be of equal consequence. Boys and girls are different, but this is not real issue. The student should not necessarily be treated as apart of a large group, but more as an individual in the classroom. This way we, as future teachers, can make sure our students have the best opportunities and learning environment to achieve their goals.
I thought it was interesting what Alex said about the research on gender only being a couple decades old, but have been known for forever. Girls are faced with rules growing up that boys would never have simply because they are male. These stipulations on what is "appropriate" for boys and girls carries over into education, jobs, and even career paths that we choose, as Sadker mentioned. I think this was even more evident in the generations before us, but I would hope society would be passed gender issues especially when it come to education and the job market.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was reading Sadker's remarks on what jobs females usually take I had to laugh and tell my mom about it. My mom is in her early sixties and was raised in the time where women were expected to stay at home and raise their families (not that this is bad...if anything this is one of the hardest jobs out there). However, she was made to become independent as soon as she graduated high school and she pushed to be a successful independent woman. My mom was one of the only female managers for engineering at AT&T during the seventies, and later on in the nineties when she went to work for another company. My sisters and I were always pushed to do well, be independent, and to strive for your goals. However, when I read Sadker's article I got the feeling that he was saying that I chose to become a teacher simply because I was a female. In reality, earning a higher degree and working with students is as rewarding for me as it would be for someone else to be in business field and make $100,000 a year. I don't think Sadker has taken into account that jobs women choose may not always be because they feel like thats what they should do or that is the only opportunity they will have in life.