Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Who is a "good parent"?
I have a big problem with both the Gladwell chapter and the TAL story. While they make important points, they can’t help but make it sound like middle and upper class people are good parents and lower class people are bad parents. But here is what I think is actually the case: middle and upper class people have more power, and they created this society and our schools. So naturally kids who are raised in homes that mimic this society and its schools are going to fit into them better and be more successful. If lower class children and their parents moved to a culture that rewarded people who have the traits associated with their parenting style, they would be more successful than a middle class child in that society. The founder of the Harlem Children’s Zone clearly thinks it would be easier to help low income parents change their parenting style than to change our schools and society, and he’s probably right. But do you see how this is unfair? What do you think of my theory?
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I would have to agree with you, but at the same time, it seems impossible to make schools fair for all situations. If schools were changed to make lower class kids be more successful, what would the affect be on the upper and middle class students? It seems to be a lose lose situation. Would it be possible to tailor the school for the area that they are serving?
ReplyDeleteAnother good point might be not that the parents are better or worse, but are just repeating the behavior that was bestowed upon them as children. When middle to upper class parents have a child they usually think back to what their parents did (or even ask their parents if they are still around). Lower class parents do the same. It applies to everything: spending habits, political views, etc.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's simply a case of society being designed to 'keep them down' (although that's part of it). I don't see how a society could function properly based on the habits that lower class people tend to perpetuate. (eg. viewing income to be spent as it is gotten without saving, having lots of children, thinking of money as something that you have to be a little bit lucky to obtain). I might be wrong but if society all felt this way I don't know how successful the country as a whole would be. But I could be completely off.
I've been getting an email through the school system about the new "budgets" in the system. Seems Sonny Perdue would like to reward principles a $10,000 bonus if the school they were at reaches a certain level in SAT scores,ect....now I know and you know that principles barely ever step foot in side a classroom to make sure that the appropriate material is being taught, but on top of that....they get to be moved to a more successful school if they wish (one that doesn't need them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) So, let's take the "successful" principle out of the school that finally reached a goal and move him to a school whose students are already "making it". Seems to me that those principles should be moved to maybe an inner city school...but that would never happen. Most principles are old coaches who went through the steps for a pay raise and now they just want to be put into the most comfortable situation ever. Our society, economy, and country has never grown and will never grow out of comfortability. It's getting out of that zone that makes you more aware and more willing to work towards something. You have to continually be challenged in order to succeed. Sorry to vent....the emails are starting to make me mad. Plus jobs are being cut in the teacher word...but they want to start giving bonuses out to principles....
ReplyDeleteI think that there will always be exceptions to the rule. I had many students coming from low income families at Valdosta High School that were just as smart as other middle and upper class children that I've met. Many of these kids worked very hard to get where they are, and many have a 3.0 GPA to obtain a HOPE scholarship and go to college while living at home.
ReplyDeleteIn my case, I do look to my parents for guidance, but my dad was also very poor growing up. He rode 5 buses to his school across town. He would have my grandma sew new soles into the old football cleats that other players had thrown in the trash. The family was not well off, but my grandpa worked hard every day of his life providing what he could for the family. I don't think society looked down on my family, but I was also not born yet, so what do I know. It would be difficult to change societal views, but how can a parent change what they don't know to change? There will be no situation where everyone is happy because if we did, then we wouldn't be in this diversity class.
One thing that I think is very important is that children should be taught about money management. Awareness at a young age can do wonders for them when they get older. I know, after reading Nickeled and Dimed, it is nearly impossible to save money, but giving the students that knowledge at a younger age could only help. I know I didn't learn anything about managing my money until I came to college and paid to take a class on it.
ReplyDeleteEvery thing is unfair. When I was writing the story of my advantages it sounded so privileged and ridiculous that any one should have the opportunities that I have had- and I would say that there are some people that have had twice the advantage that I have had. I sometimes feel guilty that I have two good choices to choose from. Why should others not have the same. It is not fair that just because of our parents circumstance that one should be better or worse off. But that is all too often the very reality. I have been afforded most of my advantage because my parents were able to give it to me. I think the theory is very unfair but how fair is it to not make efforts to stop the cycle and how unfair is it that circumstance is ruler. So I think it is a great thing to want to change parenting styles for the better of these children and if we work to better their circumstances then the better off the children will be.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree I don't think that it is a good idea to assume that all middle and upper class parents are good and the lower class parents are bad. The situation that the student or child is in I think is the biggest factor. Some lower class children have amazing parents that try and do whatever they can for there children, while some upper class parents hire someone to take care of there children. So I don't think is a true assumption in all cases. Cynthia is right maybe these students fit in more therefore they are susceptible to succeeding. But I do think that children do as there parents do and learn habits and ideas from them. So money management as Katey said is something that parents should express and show to there children also along with responsibility. ---Jenn V
ReplyDeleteI think the problem with this situation is that we are operating in a world of generalizations. We all know that not all lower income class families are dysfunctional, but most of the ones we hear or read about are. We also know that not all middle and upper income class families are functional, but our society seems to base all its values and goals on what people in these categories want. The thing about Baby College is that it seems to equalize all the income classes by giving lower income families access to theories and practices that have the potential to empower an entire generation of kids, who would have most likely been left behind. I don't think the Baby College instructors are telling the parents, "Now this is how the rich people treat their children, so you should too." Instead, I think they are saying, "Here are some alternatives to what you've been doing. Think about giving them a try."
ReplyDelete"middle and upper class people have more power, and they created this society and our schools"
ReplyDeleteThis statement is basically a "chicken and egg" type argument. Why do middle and upper class people have the power and the money and lower class do not in the first place? Was there not some time many generations ago that everyone was lower class except royalty? At some point the middle class became who they are by separating themselves from the lower class -probably by doing a lot of the things we are talking about here.
Yes society is stacked against the lower class, but to a certain extent I think reality is stacked against them. If this were 10,000 years ago and a person traded all their chickens and goats for a nice hut or a shiny stone they would have nothing left to trade for food or more livestock. The same principals apply today. Remember, I am talking about some poor here, not all.
I don't think it's the lower class parents fault that their children are left without parental guidance. If a parent has to put food on the table, they have to be at work and children are left alone. I know that's a generalization, but it is also a statistic. It may not be a statistic that people like to recognize, but one must also realize that not every lower class parent is a "bad parent" for lack a better phrase. Some parents just don't have the means to provide for their families, and it is not necessarily their fault.
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ReplyDeleteI agree here with what Christine said, I don't think that lower class parents are bad it is simply that they cannot provide as much for there children than that of the upper class parents. Upper class parents have the means of sending there children to piano lesson, to tutoring and after school programs. These parents also do not have to work second jobs and therefore they have time at night to spend helping there children and asking them questions and they can get involved with there child's lives. ---Jenn V
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ReplyDeleteI agree and disagree with the last couple of comments. I don't think poor parents are bad parents..but I do think that the majority of them don't think they're worthy to find something better for themselves. Most of those parents who never see their families (because they're working all the time) don't realize that how they are creating an income might be honest work, but it doesn't mean it's good for their family. Not being around to raise your children has major affects on them.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if they are generations into a poor family, they were probably never taught to understand how they are worth more than what they're getting!! They just have to fight harder to get out of the situation their previous family members left them in. For example...a son becoming a factory worker like his dad, who did the same thing as his dad, ect. Their struggle to get out of debt or to get out of a low income job is hard and people tend to settle because it's what their parents did and they don't know how to fight for what they're worth.
Cynthia...you like fun facts...90 percent of the people in the US are employees-which means they are trading time for money....which means that they will never have both.
I like that fact Jennifer. It is very true.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I really liked what Claire said. I was thinking the same thing when I was writing my privileges thing. I couldn't believe how lucky I have been, and it is mostly because my dad was well paid and my mom had the time to invest into me and my siblings life growing up. I have been able to be so successful because I am living and going to school in a society with people that are all just like me. I can see how kids who do not have the advantages that I have had, would not be as successful as I have been in school.
The real kicker is, how in the world do we fix this? Making everyone like the upper and middle class doesn't seem to make since. I feel like their will always be a lower class, because people will always be selfish, and inconvenience others just to get ahead. Like in Gladwell's story about his mom, there had always got to be somebody at the bottom, that it how people make themselves feel important. It really is quite disturbing. Our world needs to learn to be selfless and quit living beyond our means and wanting what we don't need.
I agree, I dont think that social status makes "good parents" or "bad parents". I think every parent, no matter what class, wants the same thing for their child and that is for the child to have a better life than their parents did. What I do think, is that being in a lower class family can create bad parenting methods. Lower class parents may have to work more and sacrifice time with their children. Its not fair to the child, but I dont think it is fair to fault the parent for trying to provide for their family. Its not a good situation to be in but I think that trying to change parenting methods is a great idea, otherwise the cycle just continues.
ReplyDeleteI got the same feeling while I was reading and listening to TAL. I couldn't help but think about where I went to school growing up. It was a good area where the parents made good money and were supposedly good parents because of it. However, I found that it was in fact these parents that would never be around to be involved in their child's life. It was also these kids who got into drinking and experimenting into drugs at a very young age. If being middle to upper-class means you are automatically a good parent than maybe they should take other things into account that goes beyond grades.
ReplyDeleteYou can't please all the people all the time. And, life just ain't fair. But like Lee said, often habits, beliefs, family traditions are passed down constantly from generation to generation in a tireless cycle, for better or for worse.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, the gap between reality and perception of high class and low class is absolutely gargantuan. I agree that the perception of a high class is a "good family" while the perception of the lower class is a "bad family." As a society, perception trumps reality, unfortunately. To me, the reality is there are good and bad high and low class families. Like Erin mentioned, parents often aren't around their children in high class families. In more extreme cases, you have examples of the outbreak of syphilis from teenage sex parties in the rich families in Rockdale. Conversely, very hard working and parents dedicated to their children are often automatically dismissed of being poor parents because they are a poor family.
Good parents. Bad parents.
ReplyDeleteJust like my statements about perception, I feel the article did not operationally define enough of what a "good" and "bad" parent is.
Societal change can be so slow and unrealized when it begins to happen. One of the first novels I read at GCSU was for my criminology class titled, "The Rich Get Richer and The Poor Get Prison." It was a decent book about how stratified and increased the low class and high class gap has become over time.
This idea of quality parenting and social class goes back to expectations. High class seems to have a low expectation for the lower class, which makes the lower class have low expectations for themselves, which pass on to their children like a domino effect. Perception and cycle sadly completed.
By changing the parenting styles for the lower class families it would help break the endless cycle of bad parenting that seems to go hand in hand with lower income families (according to the theory that they are bad parents). I agree with Alex and his idea that if the expectations for the lower class changes than this domino effect has to change as well.
ReplyDeleteChanging the perception of an entire socio economic class is a huge thing. I liked Jennifer's fact- almost everyone is trading time for money leaving little of their time for other things. And you are right Alex, expectations do set in motion perceptions and if we have low ones you are setting the bar so low. I think a small thing to start doing to help begin to change the cycle is to start helping lower income families to have different perceptions of themselves. Starting there we could build esteem and that is always a good start.
ReplyDeleteFair or not, our society is the way that is and was constructed that way by successful individuals. I don't think there is a society that is completely fair to all of its members. Therefore, in order to be successful, one must learn how to function within the society they live. I think working with parents on their parenting style is the best method for creating success of their children. Not just for academic success either, but in order to be able to truly move to a "better' situation.
ReplyDeleteI think Erin and Alex make great points. Poor families are often automatically seen as being bad families, when that is clearly not always the case. I think about celebrities, who are very wealthy, but often times are seen on telivision going to jail for drugs or spousal abuse. These are people that we idolize as a society, but their kids grow up in some of the most dysfuctional homes imaginable. The bottom line is that money doesnt automatically equal good homes or parenting.
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